Talk:Saraswati

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Requested move 10 July 2021[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time, and more clearly a consensus against the proposed move. BD2412 T 18:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[]

SaraswatiSarasvati – "V" is more accurate spelling of the Sanskrit word. Also most RS use V and this is supported on the article's talk page. .245CMR.👥📜 09:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
  • @245CMR and Sam Sailor: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:15, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
  • Title has been stable since creation in 2003 with 2463 revisions and 1160 editors, so this is def not an uncontroversial technical request. Sam Sailor 10:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''',then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose. Stable title since 2003, and I don't hear a solid argument for why it should be moved. Looking at this Ngram also suggests that the statement "most RS use V" is wrong. Sam Sailor 11:34, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
    • Comment: Most sources which are about Hinduism use "Sarasvati" for the goddess. "Saraswati" is actually incorrect as "v" is the correct English translation of the Sanskrit letter व. "Saraswati" is common as a feminine name in India and Google books may contain many authors and other characters..245CMR.👥📜 12:41, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
@Redtigerxyz: Then why does पार्वती in Simple English ("Parvati") has "v", when both the names have व? Also, IAST scripts are not banned as titles. (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)).245CMR.👥📜 13:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
I cannot comment why the is transliterated as W in Saraswati and v in Parvati, but the fact remains that the simplified transliteration in Indian English is overwhelmingly Saraswati [1]. Primary transliteration/ Simplified transliteration is preferred to Formal transliteration (like IAST/ ISO). --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
ok, thanks for your response.245CMR.👥📜 15:44, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[]
  • Comment, it isn't really possible to say that either v or w is the correct transliteration of a Sanskrit character into English, no matter what some authoritative body says; English is not subject to decrees from authoritative bodies, neither foreign nor domestic, and never has been. More importantly, though, Sanskrit and English are so far removed from one another in time and space that, from a purely genetic standpoint, nothing in Sanskrit can be said to correspond exclusively to English v or w and not the other: because, v and w (and u, but we can ignore that, because this matter pertains to the consonant usage) are all descended from the same letter. Latin v, in classical times, when a consonant, was the same sound as modern English w. In nearly all the continental languages, that sound shifted and became the modern v sound. English, OTOH, retained the old sound, and when it became necessary to differentiate the sounds in writing, they signified the historic v sound by doubling the letter - whence came w. So, another thing to consider, here, is how is this name pronounced? Does it sound more like English w or v? (note also, most languages that use the Latin alphabet do not have different sounds for those letters than English does). The pronunciation should have some weight, I think, in deciding this matter. Firejuggler86 (talk) 02:58, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[]
  • Oppose — the common usage is overwhelmingly Saraswati in (Indian) English, as highlighted by the Google trends and ngrams links mentioned above. Regarding the v vs. w in romanizing व (va in IAST), in Sanskrit this letter represents /ʋ/ (see Sanskrit#Consonants) in the IPA which is a voiced labiodental approximant. This consonant is almost a hybrid between /v/ and /w/ and may explain this difference in romanizations. — Iunetalk 23:09, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:23, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[]