Talk:Synth-pop

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Good articleSynth-pop has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
November 3, 2011Good article nomineeListed


Semi-protection[edit]

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This article has been semi-protected. Semi-protection prevents edits from unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has at least ten edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template if necessary to gain attention. New users may also request the confirmed user right by visiting Requests for permissions. SilkTork (talk) 22:18, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Synth-pop?[edit]

I swear few months ago it was synthpop. Why change it?

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Morrissey quote needs removing[edit]

  • He was talking about the synthesizer, not the synthpop genre.
  • He reneged on his position and eventually used synthesizers.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.54.92.144 (talk) 18:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
Did he though? From what I understand after reading the There is a Light That Never Goes Out article, Johnny Marr played the synthesizer to emulate classical elements, and I believe is the only song, or one of few songs by The Smiths to feature a synthesizer, which could be because the band didn't have enough time to bring a full fledged orchestra on board, or didn't want to use one, so brought in a synthesizer to give the song classical instruments feel. The song itself is not synthpop as the synth itself does not appear until closer to the end of the song, and carries the song until is abruptly ends when it seems like it's going to slowly fade out. With the synth only being used to give the song an orchestra feel, it cannot classify as synthpop, but rather symphonic rock, which could be seen as a precursor of sorts due to it using synthesizers to give rock songs a classical feel, especially so with progressive rock bands such as Moody Blues with Nights in White Satin. Moline1 (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Association with New Wave[edit]

The edit warring needs to stop! Lets discuss the optimal description here.

My view is that there is a close association between Synth-pop and New Wave but that the AllMusic reference is utterly insufficient to establish one as a subgenre of the other. It is a short description with no named author. Much better references are needed if we are to make such a definite claim. If better references can be found then I will concede the point but they would need to be proper WP:RS sources.

Plausible arguments can be made that early Synth-pop pre-dates New Wave, although their heydays are closely related. The vagueness of the term New Wave makes this hard to sort out. The association is probably the best point to make in the lead. What we need to do is start the article with an uncontroversial statement and only delve into any controversy later on. Without researching better sources I'd be recommend something like this:

"Synth-pop (short for synthesizer pop;[3] also called techno-pop[4][5]) is a genre of pop music that became prominent in the late 1970s and was closely associated with new wave music."

Of course, we need better references and if those guide us to something different then that is where we should go.

If there really is a radically different definition of the terms in the US and the UK then we need to reference this properly. We also need to remember that other countries exist and might have views on the matter too. Personally, I suspect that this is really just a difference of emphasis, not a fundamental difference in definition. --DanielRigal (talk) 18:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and speaking of other countries, the Wikipedia articles in other languages might be worth looking at. The German one does not mention new wave in its lead while the French one does but not as prominently as in our article and does not claim it as a sub-genre. --DanielRigal (talk) 18:58, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I think they are synonym! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moonsun147258 (talkcontribs) 00:32, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

And Allmusic has clearly mentioned synthpop is subgenre of new wave, But FreakyBoy hasn't given any reliable sources! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.193.18.34 (talk) 07:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

  • The blind are leading the blind here, it seems. Regard this revert by Moonsun147258. First of all, no explanation is given: that is disruptive. Second, and here is the good part, it restores proper parameters to some of the citation templates. Third, it removes--and this is the rub--this source added by FreakyBoy. That source is here, page 374. Problem is that the source is awful. It's a selection of conference papers, which--academically speaking--means they shouldn't be cited. The article is about "Detection of Communities with Multi-Semantics in Large Attributed Networks; fuck me if I know what that is, but it's not an article about synthpop, that's for sure. Moreover, it's not even written in proper English--it wouldn't pass in Freshman Comp, it's so incompetent grammatically. What it is supposed to verify is that synth-pop is some sort of spawn of electronic music and pop, and not a child of new wave (who cares...); what it says is "synth pop music origins from "new wave," "post-punk," and is popular in "80s."" In other words (I could parse this more but it's getting boring): no. The source is not to be used (deriving it's knowledge from a word cloud), and it doesn't even verify what it's supposed to verify. Drmies (talk) 03:55, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps, neither source should be used in that case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreakyBoy (talkcontribs) 13:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

  • I don't know about AllMusic, I have no opinion, but DanielRigal is no fool. Surely it can't be hard to find good sources. Drmies (talk) 14:09, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
  • There is good literature on the topic ([2], for instance), but I'm afraid Wikipedia editors are more likely to look for simple one-liners to nail down some genre. Drmies (talk) 14:15, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

You are more likely to find a source that states Synth-Pop is a subgenre of New Wave, as the term was used very loosely in the US. However, in the UK, they used it to separate bands like The Human League, Duran Duran, Pet Shop Boys, Eurythmics from the more guitar oriented bands which were known as New Wave in the US who were Elvis Costello, The Pretenders, Joe Jackson. Even in the UK, the term was not the most accurate. Elvis Costello was probably the only real New Wave artist of those three bands. The Pretenders were Jangle Pop (A subgenre of pop rock influenced by post-punk), Joe Jackson was Power-Pop, The Clash was (Dance-Punk in their later material like Rock the Casbah being labelled as New Wave), and Lene Lovich (Art Rock, labelled as New Wave). Then we had the original New Wave scene in the US before any of this Synth-Pop started overlapping. Even then it was used loosely. Bands labelled as New Wave in the US were Blondie (True New Wave band), The Cars (Power Pop band, not New Wave), The B-52's (Dance-Punk a subgenre of Post-Punk), The Go-Go's (True New Wave band), The Motels (Pop Rock band, not New Wave), DEVO (Art Punk band labelled as New Wave), and finally Talking Heads (Another Art Punk band labelled as New Wave). There was a Canadian New Wave scene as well and that was loosely defined too. Those bands were Rough Trade with Carole Pope (True New Wave band), Martha and the Muffins (Art Rock band labelled as New Wave), and the Payola$ (I would say they were a Reggae Rock type of band labelled as New Wave). FreakyBoy (talk) 14:09, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Japan?[edit]

If "Kraftwerk" were the first to play a Synth Pop, Germany should to be the ONLY pionner of this music genre. Yellow Magic Orchestra only copied the European idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WesternUniverse (talkcontribs) 22:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Synthpop origins. Late 1960's, or 1977-80 as currently listed in article,[edit]

When did synthpop originate? The late 1960's or 1977-80, as is currently listed in the article? If you listen to Popcorn by Gershon Kingsly from 1969 and Hot Butter in 1972, and Dream Weaver and Love is Alive, both by Gary Wright, they are all synthpop. Let's also not forget the Clockwork Orange soundtrack which is also all synth music. This concludes it originated in the late 1960's in a basic form, but did not adopt all of its elements to make it complete until the late 1970's when new wave burst onto the scene. I edited the years to say Late 1960's-Early 80's (to account for synthpop's development during that timeframe), along with the aforementioned songs as being the reason for changing it, but someone reverted it saying those songs don't constitute synthpop and that the years are correct along with a Rolling Stone source. While they are certainly credible, I feel they don't capture synthpop's origins in the aforementioned songs. So, what do you guys think? Should we keep the years at 1977-80, or should we change it to Late 1960's-Early 80's to account for those aforementioned songs and the arrival of new wave? Heck, on the synthrock page, it says that has been around since the late 1960's, however, in actuality, that is not true. People are probably conflating synthrock and progressive rock and saying progressive rock was originally termed for music that would be otherwise termed synthrock, however, progressive rock synthesizers were used to give the song's a classical/symphonic feel, and not in the way they would be following synthpop's dominance. So, we can safely say synthpop originated in the late 1960's as there is credible evidence to that, however, there is no credible evidence that a rock band in the late 1960's-1970's used a synthesizer outside of the progressive rock/orchestra rock setting. Plus, the synthrock article is very bare bones that it would almost make better sense to merge it here with a section on it along with synthpunk, rather than it having its own article, especially if it's not as in-depth as this one is. I tried making it more in-depth by including rock bands that used a synthesizer prominently to give it a head start, but it was reverted as unsourced.Moline1 (talk) 02:29, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Dutch[edit]

please change ((Dutch)) to ((Netherlands|Dutch)) 98.239.227.65 (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 14:37, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Poorly constructed and researched article with emphasis Commercial success only[edit]

Very biased article with poor research and musical understanding. First of all, instrumental synthpop in Europe predates the British origin starting in about 1978 however due to language barrier and less competitive music industry European acts especially French and Belgian aren't as well know but musically they are the originators. Instrumental pop of Fredric Mercier, Jacno, Telex, vocal pop of Lio and one song of Plastic Bertrand from 1978 which can be considered first vocal synthpop song are neglected. Secondly synthpop didn't influence dance music to a great extent, space, italo and electronic disco along with hi NRG are the direct progenitors of EDM, house, techno and trance and there are many pre 1979 examples of instrumental synth/space disco, dance and hi NRG having the important features of these genres. The articles seems to portray a very layman narrative of music with no deep insight. Sharjeel.k126 (talk) 16:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)