Talk:369th Infantry Regiment (United States)

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Review[edit]

Although Wikipedia has a lot of information and a variety of facts, what made the 369th Infantry Regiment different was that it was comprised of extraordinary black men. One thing the article is lacking is what makes most people and groups in life unique, their experiences. the article has the correct dates and major events and specifics about the regiment in general but it lacks the personal connection anything worth reading is comprised of. The Black Soldiers of New York State has plenty of those connections and unique qualities that come from individual experiences. For example more information about Vertner Woodson Tandy would be ideal. Mr. Vertner Woodson Tandy who was the first African-American to pass the military commissioning examination and was commissioned as a First Lieutenant was also a “Jewel” a founding member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated which also happens to be a inspirational group of men not only on our campus, but the country as well. This article is lacking a large amount of citations and references which could ruin the credibility of the whole article if there is a large amount of information that comes from nowhere. The Black Soldiers of New York State by Anthony F. Gero was well written with references for personal account and information. It also had more specific information about some of the individual people that made the 369th Regiment so unique and special. For example he brings to life to actions that go untold that were instrumental in the 369th Regiments history. Anthony F. Gero is an adjunct instructor of history at the State University of New York. For the amount of citations missing and lack of detailed information the footnotes are also lacking I expected to find more footnotes that would make up for the lack of citation or any side notes about the information presented. What stood out to me that I thought was good in the article was the section for further reading. I felt like that section was good with the amount of other books they had with accurate information about the Harlem Hellfighters. There were a lot of contributors but none that really stood out for having written the most information in the article. The Wikipedia article is relatively organized, it has all the information in a recognizable order. The comparison reading does not seem to have any clear order at all, but the reading is not chaotic it is understandable and efficient. In the talk page there has been some discussion and corrections made to the article. some changes and topics were bigger than others, but nothing was ever so incorrect that a major change was made. They were all just minor details and additional information that was provided. There is also a different point of view from the book that mod people would not be aware of. Like that the black community saw the war as a blessing and chance to prove their worth to white Americans and to prove how dedicated they were to their country despite the things being plotted overseas and the conditions they were dealing with in heir homeland. They wanted a chance not to be seen as better or higher than whites but just to be seen as equals, to be seen as another human being. Anthony Gero also expressed how their was even segregation in the military on a bigger level than normal like how black soldiers in there first world war were not allowed to carry the American flag and carried the French flag instead. He said that its even more of a disgrace than being segregated, there is no pride in not being allowed to represent your own country black or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdaziel4 (talkcontribs) 21:09, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Unsupportable Claim of 191 Days Continuous Combat Service in WWI[edit]

There is a claim made at the beginning of the article "During WWI, the 369th spent 191 days in front line trenches, more than any other American unit." which is also echoed later as "On one tour, they were out for over six months, which was the longest deployment of any unit in World War I." and again as "it was official that the outfit was 191 days under fire" BUT this constantly repeated claim cannot be reconciled with the detailed timeline presented in the paragraph headed Assignment to French Army 1918. The 369th was relegated to labor service until it was assigned to the French Army 8 May 1918 where it served in combat but then "On 19 August, the regiment went off the line for rest and training of replacements" -- so exactly when between 8 May 1918 and 19 August 1918 were those 191 days? The timeline then shows the unit back in combat 25 September 1918 until "In mid-October the regiment was moved to a quiet sector in the Vosges Mountains, where it was stationed there on 11 November, the day of the Armistice." So again, when were those 191 days of continuous combat? Counting from 8 May 1918, the claimed 191 days of continuous front line combat would take us to 15 November 1918 which would be remarkable in a war that ended on 11 November 1918.N4aof (talk) 16:14, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Early comments[edit]

The contents of this page comes entirely from the Hamilton Fish III talk page. Thanks to the anonymous user who posted this relevant information, though this page may require some "neutralization." Katagelophobia 11 Dec. 2003

Actually, as a Staff Sergeant who retired from this unit, I can personally say that the article is only one pinky in the water. I did not write the piece, but I am capable to comment about it, and it is cautiously accurate as far as it goes. Thye unit is still on the active rolls - today it is the 369th Corps Support Battalion of the New York Army National Guard, nd it currently has one or more Companies serving a very long tour in Kuwait. I served with one of them in Saudi Arabia in 1990-91. having read what you commented, I will flesh this out as much as I can.
CORNELIUSSEON 13:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
The following is moved from Talk:Hamilton Fish III, where it was too detailed to be relevant.
Harlem Hellfighters:
The 369th Infantry Regiment of the New York National Guard 15 Regiment. An all African American unit, the 369th fought in World War I under the French Flag because the United States refused to have African American soldiers in combat. The 369th compiled an astounding war record and were decorated by the French government. But when they returned home to the United States, they were subjected to the racism of the era, and discovered their service in World War I meant nothing to their fellow Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.185.1.100 (talk) 14:44, 25 June 2003
Presumably it was the germ, referred to above, of the article.
--Jerzyt 01:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

WP:MILHIST Assessment[edit]

A very nice start in terms of length, content, and images. But organizationally, this needs a lot of work. Separate the intro out from the main body of the article. Make the chronological placement (i.e. WWI, not WWII or Civil War or Revolution) obvious in the very first sentence. And organize the rest better into sections. I'll admit I have not read the article full-through, but a quick glance catches at least one spelling/grammar error - why is "Muster" capitalized? Take a quick look through, clean-up the spelling and grammar overall. LordAmeth 11:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Army "396th" units[edit]

After searching Google.com, I have only come up with the following units which have been deployed to Iraq with "369th"

  • 369th Transportation Company [1][2]
  • 369th Engineer Company [3]
  • 369th Combat Support Hospital [4]
  • 369th Military Police Detachment [5]
  • 369th Transportation Company [6]
  • 369th Transportation Detachment [7]
  • 369th Quartermaster Battalion [8][9]

There is no sources or references to a "369th Sustainment Brigade", "369th Corps Support Battalion" or "369th Transportation Battalion". None of the units listed above have direct lineage to the 369th Infantry Regiment unless proven otherwise. -TabooTikiGod 15:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Here is the information from the United States Army Institute of Heraldry on the subject of the 369th Sustainment Brigade. For The Record, I am a retiree of the 719th Transportation Company, which is one of the subordinate units of the 369th.

Insignia[edit]

Shoulder Sleeve Insignia[edit]

  • Description:
  1. A shield-shaped embroidered item, arched outwardly at top blazoned as follows: Per chevron Argent and Gules, between three palets counterchanged, two poplar trees Vert; all with a 1/8 inch (.32 cm) Blue border.
  2. Overall dimensions are 2 7/16 inches (6.19 cm) in width and 3 inches (7.62 cm) in length.
  • Symbolism:
  1. The chevron, heraldic symbol for support, suggests the unit’s mission.
  2. The palets/vertical bars signify military strength and allude to the three campaigns in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq.
  3. The counterchanged colors of the palets/vertical bars signify the various transformations of the unit to become the 396th Sustainment Brigade.
  4. The poplar tree, adapted from the 369th Infantry Battalion’s coat of arms, indicates the Brigade perpetuating the lineage of the Battalion.
  • Background: The shoulder sleeve insignia was approved for the 369th Sustainment Brigade on 2008-02-07.

Distinctive Unit Insignia.[edit]

  • Description: A silver color metal and enamel device 1 1/4 inches (3.18 cm) in height overall consisting of a blue shield charged with a silver rattlesnake coiled and ready to strike.
  • Symbolism:
  1. The rattlesnake is a symbol used on some colonial flags and is associated with the thirteen original colonies.
  2. The silver rattlesnake on the blue shield was the distinctive regimental insignia of the 369th Infantry Regiment, ancestor of the unit, and alludes to the service of the organization during World War I.
  • Background:
  1. The distinctive unit insignia was originally approved for the 369th Infantry Regiment on 1923-04-17.
  2. It was redesignated for the 369th Coast Artillery Regiment on 1940-12-03.
  3. It was redesignated for the 369th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion on 1944-01-07.
  4. It was redesignated for the 569th Field Artillery Battalion on 1956-08-14.
  5. The insignia was redesignated for the 369th Artillery Regiment on 1962-04-04.
  6. It was amended to correct the wording of the description on 1964-09-02.
  7. It was redesignated for the 569th Transportation Battalion and amended to add a motto on 1969-03-13.
  8. The insignia was redesignated for the 369th Transportation Battalion and amended to delete the motto on 1975-01-14.
  9. It was redesignated for the 369th Support Battalion and amended to revise the description and symbolism on 1994-11-02.
  10. The insignia was redesignated for the 369th Sustainment Brigade and amended to revise the description and symbolism on 2007-07-20.

Also, here are the links you missed on the Brigade and its subordinate units:

SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) (talk) 19:23, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Title[edit]

The title of this article is incorrect. The title should be 369th Infantry Regiment (United States), not 396th.

You're right. I can't believe no one noticed it before now. I have moved the page. jwillbur 02:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

369th SUSTAINMENT BRIGADE[edit]

This article needs to be moved to the new title of the unit since it has been uprated to Brigade status, and has subsumed most of the Combat Service and Combat Service Support units of the New York Army National Guard. Indeed, the unit now is commanded by a Full Colonel - the first Female Full Colonel in the NYARNG - and it has assumed parity with the 27th Infantry Brigade Combat Team as one of two Major Commands under the 53rd Troop Command.-SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) (talk) 06:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me the new status and purpose should be discussed at both the top and the bottom of the article, but the unit was much more famous and interesting as an infantry regiment than in its present form. Who's going to be looking up a Sustainment Brigade out of historical interest? Better to keep the present 369th Infantry Regiment (United States) name for the article, and just put the new facts inside the article. Jim.henderson (talk) 00:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Need references[edit]

This article is in bad need of citations. So far, there is just one source cited, and it is cited for a relatively tangential piece of information. It seems like there's a lot of great information on here, and I see some citations on the Talk page; we just need them to carry over to the article itself. Thanks! Rustinf (talk) 02:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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short footnotes {sfn}[edit]

Hello, in order to link the notes to the references, to remove {{cite book}} etc from the body text, and for further standardization, I'd like to covert the referencing system to {{sfn}}. If no one has any objection in 2 weeks, I'll do it. Thanks  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 07:41, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

  • Done. Some cleanup still needed; will get to it soon-ish.   Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 09:17, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

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368th Infantry[edit]

The 369th may have had a good press, but Negro soldiers served with other units as well, including the all-black 368th, which fought with the French Army against the Germans. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 14:15, 9 January 2019 (UTC)